Rick Ellis - 03 April 2006 02:41 PM

You guys are making it more complicated than it needs to be.  Do whatever you want with the framework.  Create your own derivative product if you want, sell it, give it away, use it to wallpaper your house.  It’s free to use in any manner you see fit.

Just don’t take credit for our work.  If you create a CMS based on CI that’s fine.  Just acknowledge somewhere in your documentation that your app is based in part on CI.  And if you alter our code, make notes in the code stating the nature of the change, so that if someone in turn decides to extend your CMS or turn it into something else there is a paper trail showing where the code came from.  Hundred of hours of work (thousands, actually, when you consider every single line of code) have been put into this project so it’s the right thing to acknowledge the source.

Lastly, the name “Code Igniter” is our trademark.  So while you can use the code in any manner you choose, you can’t call your derivative product “Code Igniter CMS” unless you ask permission. 

that’s what i thought and i just wanted to clear that up.  not just for me, apparently for more people as well.

thank you for your responce and i will be hanging around here for a little bit more until i get my framework running and gunning. 

also, thank you SO SO SO much for actually making a framework.  everywhere i’ve looked it wasn’t a framework anymore.  they were a full fledged applications and that doesn’t help.  either way, awesome job

Thanks very much Rick, that makes it clear exactly what those points in the license mean. You can never be too careful these days what with “intellectual property” and the sort being somewhat of a hot topic amongst software circles, particularly open source.

Cheers

Yeah, thanks alot Rick… really looking forward to taking CI to the max in my applications.

Thank you Rick for giving such crystal
A Front Controller without switch statement.
Sorry to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Rick Ellis - 03 April 2006 02:41 PM

You guys are making it more complicated than it needs to be.  Do whatever you want with the framework.  Create your own derivative product if you want, sell it, give it away, use it to wallpaper your house.  It’s free to use in any manner you see fit.

Thanks Rick, I was just going to ask if I could wallpaper my house with it, but I wasn’t sure if that was against the license.  I feel so much better about it now.  Great, now I have work to do!

The processor completely ignores comments. Like in HTML comments are completely ignored by the rendering engine. The only difference comments make is the filesize.

Lewis - 04 April 2006 05:10 AM

The processor completely ignores comments. Like in HTML comments are completely ignored by the rendering engine. The only difference comments make is the filesize.

I haven’t looked at PHP source code, but I’ll bet that ignoring comments does take SOME processing power. It is probably insignificant compared to most of the stuff the engine does, so for all practical purposes I would agree with your statement.

Likewise for HTML comments. The only significant delay with comments would be those with the page over the Internet. We have some folks here in Belize who are (painfully) downloading pages over fixed base radio dial-up ... those poor souls are getting 12 kilobits download on a good day.  :-(

Even so, it’s the bloated pages created by crappy html editors that do the most damage.

That’s what gzip was invented for Yes comments do make it a fraction slower, but it’s not worth the time you’ll spend trying to remember why you done something.

I recall an argument on ForumInsider about wether:

if (!$blah){}
else {}

Is slower than:

if ($blah){}
else {}

Which was absolutely ridiculous. Their argument was that the exclamation mark (!) made it slower and even if it was only a nanosecond, 200 people accessing the same page, at the same time would add up to 2 seconds (until someone pointed out to them a nanosecond is a millionth of a second ). That was the most pointless argument ever. They were all trying to look cleverer than each other.

micromillionth and nanois billionth.  that doesn’t matter. 

i do strip all comments and squish my code.  there are noticable improvements in doing so.  i usually obfuscate my code as well but that is really just for fun and giggles.  that tho, is only formy production server, otherwise i keep a well documented and well commetned version locally.  it’s only the code and it runs quite faster and smoother depending on your host.

anyways, once your site gets into the thousands (like i plan to) then every thing that you can do to make it faster is nessessary.  note, i am not the best PHP prgrammer.  i’ve only been doing it for a year know off and on but it doens’t mean i’m terrible.  i’ve been programming for a good 4 years now and i know exactly what i’m talking about.

it’s all good tho.  this topic has moved it’s way over into something else.  i suggest we stay on topic or move these posts to a different thread

*sigh* Haven’t these silly debates been laid to rest by now?

Don’t you think that PHP (particularly as compiled C code) is totally optimized for file reading operations?

I created a 1 MB file with 10,000 lines of densely packed text with 100 characters per line (a larger file than ALL CodeIgniter libraries combined).  And another file, 4K, with ONE line of text (100 characters).  Here are my benchmarking results for a file reading operation, averaged over ten reloads:

0.00032730 - 10,000 lines
0.00016461 - ONE line

To read a 4K file is 2/10000 of second faster than a 1 MB file.  Think about that for a moment.  If you split a second into 10,000 parts, it takes less then two of those parts longer to read 10,000 lines vs. 1 line.

And this test was between a 1MB file and a 4K file.  If you strip comments you’re talking about maybe a 20% reduction in file size.  The difference in that would be nearly imperceptible.  Certainly not a difference that matters one hoot when servers have processors that run in the Gigahertz.

Rick, could you move these last few messages to another thread? I feel a little guilty for helping to hijack this thread, but I do think a few of the comments, especially yours, would be useful to someone else who is skimping on comments because of the myth of slowing down the code.

I suspect actual benchmarking would show that long variable names likewise slow processing an insignificant amount of time.

It’s a compromise, of course. I object to $variable_names_that_seem_to_go_on_and_on more because they make the code harder to read (too much on a line) and because of increasing chance to get the name wrong. But unless it’s a VERY temporary variable, $x is too short. I do sometimes use $s to build a string in a few lines when there is nothing in between. But I doubt that there is a significant difference in the time to locate the variable in the namespace.

Another thing I’ve heard, but not benchmarked, is that if you can do something in SQL it is usually MUCH faster than doing it in PHP ... like using ORDER BY rather than sucking it into a PHP array and then sorting the array. I haven’t benchmarked it to be sure. But again, if the execution time when you’re done is less than a tenth of a second, who cares?

Using double quotes instead of single quotes has more of an effect

Yes the MySQL tends to be true. It’s easy for you if it’s alreay sorted anyway.

Rick Ellis - 03 April 2006 02:41 PM

You guys are making it more complicated than it needs to be.  Do whatever you want with the framework.  Create your own derivative product if you want, sell it, give it away, use it to wallpaper your house.  It’s free to use in any manner you see fit.

Just don’t take credit for our work.  If you create a CMS based on CI that’s fine.  Just acknowledge somewhere in your documentation that your app is based in part on CI.  And if you alter our code, make notes in the code stating the nature of the change, so that if someone in turn decides to extend your CMS or turn it into something else there is a paper trail showing where the code came from.  Hundred of hours of work (thousands, actually, when you consider every single line of code) have been put into this project so it’s the right thing to acknowledge the source.

Lastly, the name “Code Igniter” is our trademark.  So while you can use the code in any manner you choose, you can’t call your derivative product “Code Igniter CMS” unless you ask permission.

I have some questions about the License Agreement myself, hopefully you can help, Rick. mainly it is to see if an implementation we plan will remain within the License Agreement.

In your second point you seem to be saying it is considerate to detail the changes that have been made to code, but on the other hand, you have an LA, with legal consequences saying you must. Is the explanation you give a justification of the LA, or is it an explanation of it, forcing us, as it were, to be considerate.

We plan to use CI for a website and will be extending the code as deployed on the server. We are not selling or distributing the code, (unless having it on one server is considered “distribution") just the service of building a site with it. I assume one installation on one contracted server in a managed hosting environment does not count as a distribution or redistribution.

Correct me if I’m wrong.

We will not be removing or modifying your supplied code, but extending it in one of two ways, based on your reply:

1. extending it in a separate set of files alongside your code, with it’s own readme documenting the changes (we thought we’d export some detailed and sensible notes from the svn logs as we go along)

2. extending it within your file/directory structure but adding notes in a changelog, again fed from detailed SVN notes.

Ultimately, if we mash it up into a great big ball of mess, as long as we don’t label it “CodeIgniter” and add reasonable comments in the code as to what we did with it along the way, we comply with the LA?

Would that comply with the LA as you understand it?

Some of you seem confused between distributing and using the code.

Basically you can do what the hell you like with the code for your site. However, if you want to zip it up and offer it for people to download then you need to include a line saying “This was built with Code Igniter” or something along those lines.

I, personally, include a line at the bottom of my apps saying “Built with Code Igniter” and the line is hyperlinked to the CI site.

If I wanted to zip up my app, e.g. a forum, then I’d include a file with all the legal stuff in explaining its built with the CI framework and where to go to download the most up to date version of the framework, how to update it, etc. Explaining in so much detail is my personal choice. I wouldn’t ever distrube my code anyway. I don’t fancy being picked at by more experienced coders just yet

The whole reason they have the license there is to prevent people downloading it, changing the zip file name and offering it to people under a different name.